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cdschroer

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Posts posted by cdschroer


  1. Thanks Hembo!

    Turns out that RTiViewer won't run

    on Catalina either.  Gianpaolo Palma from the Visual Computing Lab in Pisa is looking into recompiling it for 64 bit.  He thinks it will be straight forward if we lose the functionality for the network viewing.  That was really just an experiment in the current version, and I think there are better options for folks now - so losing that feature to get 64 bit seems like something we can live with.

    2 different people are looking into 64 bit PTMFitter and HSHFitter.  PTMFitter isn't open source, and we don't have the code.  We do have the code for HSHFitter.  

    Are the fitters the problem - or can you not run the RTiBuilder application?  Please post any specific error messages you receive.

    Thanks - and I've just pinged the folks that were working on all these things to try to get an update.  I'll let you know if there is a way for you to get involved. I appreciate the offer.

    Carla


  2. The first question is what platform are you on?  If you are on Mac make sure that you install RTIBuilder somewhere on your system (i.e. drag it from the disk image (.dmg file) onto your hard drive)  Most folks put it in Applications. If you run it from the disk image you can have problems like this.  If this isn't the problem for you, then give a bit more info about your setup to help us figure it out.

     

    Carla


  3. HSHfitter was compiled as a 32 bit app on the Mac - and those aren't supported in Catalina.  Someone is working on trying to solve this for the PTMFitter.   The PTMFitter is turning out to be more work than initially thought, due to dependencies in the code. Note that it is NOT open source, and CHI does not have the code for it.

    I've asked someone to do this for HSHFitter - and I'll post when I have an answer as to whether they can do it, and when. We do have the code for HSHFitter and it is available under the GNU General Public License v3.

    Sorry for all the issues with this old software.

    Carla


  4. I understand that PTMFitter is 32 bit, and therefore will not run in Catalina until we can create a 64bit version.  We have had some discussions about that with various folks, because (as noted above) the PTMFitter is not open source code, and we at CHI do not have the code.  We think we may have a solution - but I don't want to say for sure until we are sure.  I just want to let you know that we have contacted folks who may be able to solve it.

     

    However, I'm not sure why RTIBuilder - which is a Java Application would not run, nor why HSHFitter wouldn't run.  I just used the Go64 app and it says that the HSHFitter is also 32 bit.  We do have the code for that one, so it should be easier to fix.  I didn't get any warnings about RTIViewer.  I have an older Mac and not running the latest OS.  If anyone has tried ay of the tools on Catalina - please post what you have found about RTiViewer and RTiBuilder - other than the fitters, which we know are a problem.

     

    Carla


  5. There are a lot of 32bit apps stil in use out there.  Here's a quote from an article in Time magazine this week about how to check to see what 32bit apps you have on your system:

     

    "... if you’re dependent on a particular 32-bit app, it won’t work in macOS Catalina, as many Twitter users discovered after upgrading. Meanwhile, some popular apps, like Adobe Photoshop, appear to be suffering from temporary compatibility issues with Catalina, so it’s best to hold off on upgrading until a software patch resolves those problems.

    Want to see which of your apps are still 32-bit? On your Mac, hit the Apple menu, select About This Mac, and click System Report. In System Report, scroll down to Legacy Software, and take a look at all your 32-bit apps."

    Here's the full article: https://time.com/5696302/macos-catalina-upgrade/

    I know this doesn't resolve the problem if RTI software no longer running - but I did want to point out that folks might want to be cautious about upgrading until they see the full impact - not just RTI software.

    Carla

    • Like 1

  6. Thank you for letting us know about this.  We can contact various folks to see what the simplest fix is for this issue.  For the PTMFitter - that is HP software, and not open source.  We do not have the source code for it - but I know some researchers who have it. 

    Carla

    • Like 1

  7. We run RTIBuilder successfully on a Windows 10 machine.  We are mostly a Mac shop, so I'm not super familiar with the Windows environment, but I wanted to note that Windows 10 can successfully run RTIBuilder.

    The software is old, and we'd love to update it.  We are a small independent nonprofit, and the initial work was paid for by a grant and some volunteer efforts. We'd love to get funding to update it, but selling individual copies isn't a way to get that done (especially since it is open source software, per the agreements of the funder and all parties involved in it's development).

    We still use RTI frequently, and think it is a very useful technique.  It will take a new grant to create an updated version.

     

    Thanks to Dave for jumping in and asking for the details.  Much appreciated!

    Carla

    • Like 1

  8. There are some good ideas here.  The easiest one to implement is adding a notes field. I'm not sure we can do the other ones in the current version because of time and budget constraints, but we'll talk it over.  You can use the Notes field to store additional info - though it does have the drawback of not being as easy to find, and also not being mapped to the CRM, etc.

    Carla


  9. Have you looked at the WebRTIViewer?  http://vcg.isti.cnr.it/rti/webviewer.php

    It's from the Visual Computing Lab in Pisa - and those folks have spent some time looking at compression and tiling and similar techniques for using big files over the internet.  The project is open source. Contact info for Gianpaolo Palma is also on this page.  He was the primary developer.

    They also support RTIs in the 3D Heritage Online Presenter (3DHOP) tool.  It's from the same team.

    Carla


  10. Hi Dave - and thanks for the detailed notes!

    Actually you can link rights to both the subject AND to the images of the subject.  I admit it isn't as clear in the interface as it should be, and we are fixing that.

    The idea is that the subject may still be in copyright, and that's an important thing to know.  So subjects can have rights statements, including noting whether it is in copyright.  For our imaging work, we generally care more about the rights in the images, and we can do that too.  But even if my organization has the rights in the images, if they are images of an artwork that is in copyright, we would want to record that.

    Also remember that you don't have to use all of the fields and associations that are there. So, if you don't want to note a rights statement about a subject you don't have to.  

    Another important note about rights statements is that they are a high level way of noting what kind of rights are intended, but they aren't an actual license.  So for material that is in copyright, you need to be able to say who is the copyright holder, and what is the general license (if there is one)  This also lets people know where to go if they need to get a license for something different.

    We were just discussing this mechanism this week, as we are planning major updates for the tools. We want to make it possible to set up the rights at the project level, so that all the imaging sets that are part of that project automatically get those rights.  Then if you need to do something different for a specific set of images for say an RTI - you could override that.  We are also looking at how to make this more clear in the interface, so you can see the rights (and other attributes) and where they are coming from.  In other words, are you getting those rights from the project, or are they local to this particular RTI (or photogrammetry) set.

    And this brings me to a new concept we will be introducing: Image Bundles.  An Image Bundle is all of the images that will be processed together of the same subject (remember that a subject can be a scene, not necessarily a single object).  An Image Bundle can be a single-set image bundle, or a multi-set image bundle. That is determined based on the technology. So RTI image bundles are single set, and Photogrammetry image bundles are multi-set.  We will get rid of "groups of image sets" (it's still in the data model - but the interface will be much cleaner)  We are adding single-set image bundles for documentary image sets.

    And finally - related to your prior comments, we will be adding an image set type, that is user defined.  So, if you have a Documentary photos technology type, you can create subtypes for HDR, or stratigraphy, or small finds, or whatever is useful to you in organizing and finding and labeling your image sets.  

    Thank you so much for taking a deep look at the tools, and for taking the time to write up your experience, questions and suggestions.  We have been using the tools more and more, and also presenting them to others, and have run into some of the same issues. Some of them are harder to solve than others, though we feel the whole system is getting better.

    Cheers!

    Carla


  11. Hi Dave -

    Thanks for the notes and for using the tool!  We are adding an additional technique type for "documentary photos."  That will be in the next version (we are working on it now). We are also discussing adding support for multi-spectral image sets.  I think with a documentary photos technology type - you could support additional kinds of image sets, because the Inspector would do a very minimal check on the images, and you could add a description or note for which kind of thing it was.  Maybe we should think about subtypes within documentary photos?  We don't want to add the ability to make top level new techniques, because there are significant smarts built in about what these techniques mean for Inspector, as well as how the data is grouped and saved.  Further there are customizations for the image sets around the technologies, such as string length and sphere size for RTI - and differences between image sets for photogrammetry.  There would be no way to have these kinds of technology specific customization for user defined technology types.

    I'll note that we realize that the use of image sets and groups of image sets is confusing.  We are adding a notion of an Image Bundle - which is the images of a subject or scene that will be processed together.  For RTI that's a single image set.  For photogrammetry that's a group of image sets.  For the new documentary photos that would also be an image set. This way you can see all the image bundles within a project, etc.  We are working on some additional reporting functionality.

    We'd love to get your thoughts about this kind of approach and whether it would meet the needs you see.

    Carla


  12. I agree generally with the advice listed here. We stay away from contrast curves.  You can apply a white balance and an exposure compensation when needed, and this can be done for individual images or sets of images.  The main thing when doing an exposure compensation is that you are trying to get a matching histogram across the images (not exactly, and will potentially vary for different parts of a subject)  The point is that you can make some adjustments that will give you better photos, without applying contrast curves or sharpening.  If you have heavily shadowed areas within a photo and some areas are bright, you can also bring up the shadowed area.  This is essentially an exposure compensation applied only to the dark parts of an image.  Don't go crazy with these modification though.

    As for the second part of your question, you absolutely can make new jpegs or tiffs from your RAW or DNG files with exposure changes.  As long as they have the same name and are in the same location on your hard drive, (or you reset the path to point to them) Agisoft software will use those images for any operations after you replace them.  We have done that to correct for lighting differences across an image set and to remove what Dave referred to as "boundary effects"  or light and dark stripes or patches across a surface.  This can occur for a variety of reasons including shooting something in the round outdoors where one side is in shadow and one side is in full sun. Also if the sun is going in and out of clouds you can have these issues. Ideally you would correct for that when you are shooting by adjusting shutter speed. 

    Carla


  13. I'm guessing the issue is the size of the RTIs.  You might be able to open them on a beefier computer.  Though, in general we have successfully opened files made from a 50MP camera and full quality Jpegs on a machine with 16GB RAM.  The RTiViewer will try to open large files, and may fail if it can't open them.  Usually it fails without issuing an error - so I'm surprised by the internal filepath error.  I haven't seen that before. 

    Thanks Dave for jumping in on this one!

    Carla


  14. Musa -

    We use the database to help organize and keep track of the information you enter using the DLNCC tool. This also helps with reusing data you already entered. The installer installs the database, and when you run DLNCC it will be able to connect to the database using a default password.  So, if the Postgres application is running, then DLNCC can connect to it and work properly.  If when you try to start DLNCC it asks for a password for Postgres - then "cancel" and start Postgres yourself (by double clicking on the application) then  run DLNCC again and it should work.  In other words, Postgres has to be running before you try to run DLNCC.  By default it will run every time you startup your computer.  If you are actually trying to look at the database in Postgres, we do not advise that, as the design of the tables and their relationships was to be used only with the DLNCC tool, and DLNCC is designed to manage the data and export the data and relationships.  You should not try working with the database directly, only through the DLNCC interface should you enter information.

    Carla


  15. Welcome to the forum for discussions about Nigerian Cultural Heritage preservation and documentation.  We welcome discussions about any topics of interest for folks working in Nigeria, or interested in preserving Nigerian culture. 

    If you have questions about Reflectance Transformation Imaging (RTI) or photogrammetry - please use one of the other appropriate forums for those questions and discussions.

    Carla


  16. The PTMFitter is available - and I posted it in the FAQ forum pinned to the top, as well as in the thread where it came up.  We have created a dropbox with the files:

     

    For HSHFitter - try using it as installed - and staying away from the advanced options.  In other words Do NOT tick the box for advanced options.

    Carla


  17. The page with the workaround noted above is no longer available.  I was able to install RTIBuilder 2.0.2 on MacOS Mojave with instructions from this page: https://techsviewer.com/allow-installation-of-apps-from-anywhere-in-macos-mojave/

    They show multiple options, but the only one I was able to make work was to disable the "gatekeeper" which puts open apps from :"anywhere" back on your preferences window.  Note that you can open RTIBuilder once, then change your setting back to just from identified developers, until you need to allow an app to open again.

    Other methods for overriding allow an app from an unknown developer, including from the Apple Manual did not work. The system detects that the app is "damaged" meaning that it was modified after it was signed.  Note that there are many legacy apps where this is true, and they say that you can override it by using control click on the app and open, but that didn't work for me.  I continued to get the damaged app message.  However, disabling the gatekeeper (i.e. putting "allow apps from anywhere" in the security preferences did work.

     

    Carla


  18. Wow!  You folks are having a very difficult time.  I'm sorry to hear it.  We mostly work on Macs in our studio - though we have worked with Windows machines in training classes, and we recently added one to our collection of computers.  

    The computer you describe should be plenty powerful to build 50MP RTI files.  We also have a 5DSR for more than 3 years, and build RTIs from those images on a regular basis. 

    We know about HPLabs taking down the ptmfitter - and most of the PTM pages from their website.  We've made the ptmfitter available in a dropbox - we posted that here to the FAQ forum: 

     

    I can't really explain all the problems you are having.  One thing to check is whether you have rotated all the images in the image set.  If there is one that is portrait for example and the rest are landscape, that will cause problems with the fitters.  If you are shooting images with the camera hanging down from a tripod - or from a camera stand, then it will sometimes "auto-rotate" the images into different orientations.  We recommend turning off auto-rotate and then rotating the whole set of images at once, when needed.  

     

    There is a discussion comparing HSH and PTM here - there are trade-offs: 

     

    That's all I've got time for tonight.  There are other posts about the JPEG library error on Windows in the forum -  you can try searching for that.  I wish I had a better answer for you, but I'm kind of scratching my head at this point.  I'm hoping other folks will chime in.

     

    Carla

     

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